<nettime> research.culture.industry

["Lachlan Brown" <lachlan@london.com>]

Alan, could you run that by me again in poetic form? I'm a bit shocked to
read prose from Alan Sondheim. Uncannily disorientating.  Well, I think
that beside the educational industry indicated by your URLs you are
involved in the publishing industry to some degree. However, I did not say
that Nettime's contribhutors were necessarily of an industry. It would be
interesting to see how they defined I pointed out that people who visit
Nettime.org also visit a range of othersites. I read in the kind of sites
these people visit a strong dot.com company, webmaster and commercial
management readership. Much stronger than I suspected. This is a profile
of the Internet industry. A remarkably wealthy industry despite (or
because of ;) ) the market speculation boom.

I am surprised by the predomonance of 'mere industry' sites linked to
Nettime but have always known that Nettime is one site read by The
Webmasters, especially relatively early webmasters (95-96) who now run
companies, large departments, as well as carry on their own smaller
consultancy or commercial enterprises, and we should include of course
some University sys ops.

This Industrial readership was, I thought, something I should bring to the
attention of the contributors to Nettime who could do with giving some
thought to their place in this industry. Yes, I would call most
contributors members of the culture industry, but there is a large
presence of people involved in the E - Industry per se.

The idea of Industry is not a new one but it hasn't really come under
discussion much recently.


Eduardo,

   It's not a hoax, visit alexa.com and enter Nettime.org then follow some
of the sites listed as sites also visited by people who visit nettime.
Industry. New money mostly. The dot.com survivors. Dying to invest in the
idea of meaningful content, in the production of culture rather than one
man space missions. The Industry is now tooling up for broadband delivery
of media and perhaps this is why they are interested in the opinion of
nettimers.

Michael,

Yes. The culture industry too. 

Chris:

>Ach so ! 
>do you think poetry is industry, art is industry, net.art is >industry,

Donner und Blitzen !  yes, precisely, I would hope so. I think poetry is
the most difficult industry one can engage in. No border most definitely
is industry since industry prefers 'free trade'. 'Individual liberties' do
require a huge industry, the industry of lawyers policy makers, but NO, I
was thinking more about the fact of The E Industry and how very little is
known about it, who comprises it, and what it, collectively, thinks (if IT
thinks) and why it is interested in Nettime.


>crypto is industry, EZLN is industry, no border is industry , >individual
liberties are industry.....


Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:21:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alan Sondheim <sondheim@panix.com>
Subject: Re: <nettime> hoax plus digest [lukens, silver, brown]

Lachlan -

What industry are we involved in? For many of us, "the" industry is in
itself problematic. There are many lists dealing with this - for example
community informatics. Nettime works precisely because it's leaky; its
focus is partial; there's room for everything from the unstable digest on.

Alan

Work at http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt
Older at http://lists.village.virginia.edu/~spoons/internet_txt.html
Trace Projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm
CDROM of collected work 1994-2002 available: write sondheim@panix.com

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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 00:56:28 -0700
From: eduardo@navasse.net
Subject: RE: <nettime> hoax plus digest [brown]

Lachlan Brown Wrote:
>
>The people who read Nettime are primarily involved
>in the industry. I think Nettime should become more
>of an industry list.
>
>There are lists that handle the creative and critical
>aspects with greater focus. Industry issues public/private
>sectors are not discussed with such focus.
>
>NE thoughts?
>
>Lachlan
_________________

I was surprised to read the above.  What exactly is "the industry?"  I
know some people who subscribe to nettime personally and/or virtually, and
can say that they do not necessarily work commercially (if that is what is
meant by industry),

Yes, I think some economic element is required in the industry.


 and if they do, they do look forward to the "critical aspects" that
develop in the postings.

How fast some nettimers forgot the endeavors of Bosma and Fusco...  If
anything else that whole Documenta thread was one of the most interesting
of recent times. If the above is true, I am extremely disappointed.  This
"Friday the 13 post" should be filed under "minor art world hoax," as
Peter Lunenfeld previously posted.

Peace,

Eduardo Navas

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From: "Paulukonis, Michael (RHD-DUN)" <Michael.Paulukonis@rhd.com>
Subject: Industry LLLLLiiist
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 08:11:31 -0400

List? to which side?


Industry? the Culture Industry?



swing:shift

-the Other Michael
http://xraysmalevich.tripod.com/alternativetonoise
http://www.watermelonpunch.com/whirl/
"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect
wood or assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for
the endless immensity of the sea."
--Antoine de Saint Exupery


from: "Lachlan Brown" <lachlan@london.com>
date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:55:41 +0000
subject: Nettime should be an Industry list

The people who read Nettime are primarily involved
in the industry. I think Nettime should become more 
 <...>

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Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 21:41:51 +0200
From: lagadu@altern.org
Subject: Re: <nettime> noting but industry!

nettime's_H0AX0R wrote:

> From: "Lachlan Brown" <lachlan@london.com>
>
> The people who read Nettime are primarily involved
> in the industry. I think Nettime should become more
> of an industry list.
>
> There are lists that handle the creative and critical
> aspects with greater focus. Industry issues public/private
> sectors are not discussed with such focus.
>
> NE thoughts?
>
> Lachlan

Ach so ! do you think poetry is industry, art is industry, net.art is
industry, crypto is industry, EZLN is industry, no border is industry ,
individual liberties are industry.....


Maybe you'll be right as time goes by. But I do hope you are still a bit
wrong and early and for this bit I 'll stay some more on nettime. If you
happened to be right, or the majority of the list give you right, I would
unsubscribe ASAP.



non-industrially yours

Chris



Lachlan Brown
T(416) 826 6937
VM (416) 822 1123

                                       




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