Re: <nettime> Facebook

[voyd@voyd.com]

I'm there, and for me, it is as much my location (Arabia) and how able I am to access global networks from here - it isn't bad, but we do have some firewalling to political, adult, etc. For me, I feel that if I were in the Western World, I would be in a position to have a different stance. Here in Asia, the sociopolitics are extremely different to the point that if you have not spent significant time here, you would not realize, and I am not speaking to the far more restrictive Saudi society.  I think it is easy to have a Western politics and think that they just translate tot he rest of the world. This is also not being in defence; it is merely pointing towards the differend.

The politics of the infrastructure in the time of the Stacks is something I struggle with.

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 19:29:17 -0500 (EST), Alan Sondheim <sondheim@panix.com> wrote:


I'm in agreement here; I leave as little trace as I can. (Also trapped
because I want my own work to remain.) This reminds me of the fight I had
on YouTube with Viacom and YouTube (later) re: my banning which went on
for a couple of years, a fight I finally won. YouTube has its own
viciousness of course - even something as saying no to autoplay, which
then returns on the next login.

I'd be curious about the server farms YouTube must use; they seem
unimaginable to me.

Best, Alan

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019, Craig Fahner wrote:

> maybe it's not so much a question of whether facebook's policies are bad (of
> course they are) or whether facebook is part of our social infrastructure
> (of course it is), but, rather, what capacity users have to undermine
> facebook's more predatory policies and evade its data collection regimes and
> biased recommendation algorithms. given that a lot of people use facebook
> not because they think it's an optimal platform, but because it is
> absolutely necessary to use it in order to connect with certain communities,
> what possibilities exist for users to participate in those communities while
> circumventing the platform's more odious aspects? what do a tactics of
> social media usership look like? i suspect they would engage in a constant
> give-and-take with the algorithmic governing forces that be, but, with a
> growing sentiment of suspicion regarding facebook's policies, perhaps a
> tactical approach along the lines of plugins that remove algorithmic
> recommendation features, deliberate scrambling/obfuscation of users' data
> and trackable behaviours, etc. might be more successful in empowering users
> than simply encouraging them to leave the platform entirely.
> craig fahner - https://www.craigfahner.com/
>
> On Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 9:25 AM Alan Sondheim wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 4 Nov 2019, mp wrote:
>
> > On 03/11/2019 20:36, Alan Sondheim wrote:
> >>
> >> The loss is more important to me
> >
> >> On Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Frederic Neyrat wrote:
> >>> 1/ FB enables to create a "community," that's good for
> sure;?
> >>> 2/ but in the same time, it destroys?the condition of the
> possibility of
> >>> community/togetherness/Gemeinwesen/?tre-ensemble, etc.
> >
> > Individual, particular and hence relatively short term
> perspective and
> > context (Alan's) vs. collective, abstract and hence relatively
> long term
> > perspective and context (Frederic's).
> >
> > A common disjuncture.
> >
>
> What disturbs me here is the assumption of passivity "relatively
> short
> term perspective" for example. Unless you know my work, read my
> posts,
> etc., you have no idea how long my perspective is. I've run
> talkers, a
> MOO, conferencing in IRC years ago, CuSeeMe, and on and on. I've
> taught
> courses in internet culture from 1995 on. And one of the things
> that keeps
> me generally from posting on nettime, is its own toxicity, these
> constant
> presumptions about one another, about the world, etc. And re:
> below, there
> is no "on the one hand, on the other hand" - the issue is far
> more complex
> as is people's usage of Fb or other platforms (for example email
> lists
> themselves). So "email is also shit"?
>
> I know a hell of a lot of free jazz musicians who work through
> Fb, fight
> racism, and take advantage of the platform. I know people who
> have found
> community on Fb that is absent for them in rl. I've participated
> in
> courses taught on Fb. I've engaged in political action on the
> platform. I
> don't expect purity anywhere; I never have. And one person's
> purity can be
> another person's hell. I'm appalled at Fb's policies but also
> given that
> the platform has between 1 and 2.4 billion users, the sociality
> is far
> greater (and far more diverse and interesting) than its public
> image.
>
> Alan
>
>
> > It is a complex issue. On the one hand it makes sense to
> adjust your
> > means to the ends you desire. Be the change you want to see
> and all that.
> >
> > On the other hand, it could be seen as a form of
> neoliberalisation when
> > the responsibility for the future of the system is distributed
> to
> > individuals - and at the end of the day, it is impossible to
> live in
> > this planetary urbanisation without acting in destructive
> ways, so we
> > all have to cut corners. Email is also shit for the web of
> life we are
> > entangled in.
>
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