Allan Siegel on Sun, 14 May 2023 09:45:25 +0200 (CEST)


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Re: <nettime> nettime- New Proposal

Hello all,
I join the chorus for survival and rejuvenation... As Thomas said: "*A*synchronous "social media" is absolutely vital! It is an evolving discursive platform not a dinosaur.
Nettime is more than just a mailing list - pardon the _expression_ - but is a form of a materialization of a diverse community in contrast with a commodified wasteland.

I will to contribute in whatever way possible to the realization or shaping of Menno's (and others) collective framework.

best
allan


On 2023Sunday. 05. 14. 5:40, nettime-l-request@lists.kein.org wrote:
Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: closing nettime-l, uh? (Daniel Brandes)
   2. Re: closing nettime-l, uh? (Thomas Gramstad)
   3. Re: closing nettime-l, uh? (Frank Rieger)
   4. New proposal (Menno Grootveld)
   5. grzinic, this is a great proposal Menno, we should accept
      asap  RE:  New proposal (Marina Grzinic)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 13 May 2023 14:11:29 +0000
From: Daniel Brandes <daniel.brandes@posteo.net>
To: nettime-l@lists.kein.org
Subject: Re: <nettime> closing nettime-l, uh?
Message-ID: FA7B8728-ADB8-40CE-9AEA-10DAF0211E26@posteo.net"><FA7B8728-ADB8-40CE-9AEA-10DAF0211E26@posteo.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

From a recent exchange with a fellow member: 


Especially the art world heavily depends on independent informational and communicational means. 

~ 


Am 12.05.2023 um 10:51 schrieb Paul Schmidt <mail@paulvs.de>:

[?] more resolution pixels for the entry-website [?] 


No way. 

~ 

In gratitude and with high expectations, 

Lurker #31242 


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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 12 May 2023 16:31:11 +0200 (CEST)
From: Thomas Gramstad <thomas.gramstad@ub.uio.no>
To: Annette Springborn <antenne@springborn.net>
Cc: nettime-l <nettime-l@kein.org>, nettime-l@lists.kein.org,  Felix
	Stalder <felix@openflows.com>
Subject: Re: <nettime> closing nettime-l, uh?
Message-ID: 6273d776-3df2-b31d-d89a-7ec1f59ab22d@ifi.uio.no"><6273d776-3df2-b31d-d89a-7ec1f59ab22d@ifi.uio.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

Hello,

Another long-time lurker here, and I totally agree with Annette.

I would like to add the following points:


1) "10 days without new list mail"

Uh, that's a really great thing.

That's the normal pattern for mailing lists: You write and
discuss when you have something to say. When not you think,
or take a break doing something else.

The need for a constant chatterbox is a disease born out of
social synchronous media.

The absence of that disease is one of the great blessings of
*A*synchronous "social media", like mailing lists and e-mail
in general.


2) Channels that are independent of Big Corporates should be
encouraged, supported and kept alive,?not closed down.


3) If technical infrastructure is a problem, nettime-l is
welcome to stay at one of my Mailman installations (owned
by various local computer associations), where I already
manage somewhere north of 35-40 other mailing lists.

I think somebody else offered the same, and that is fine.
If that doesn't happen for some reason, I offer the same.

If nettime moves to my Mailman-server, I'll assist with the
technical stuff, but somebody else should manage the actual
list contents, like conflict resolution between members,
moderation (if applicable) and so on. That or those somebody
can be anywhere in the world.

Thomas Gramstad
thomas@gramstad.no / thomas.gramstad@ub.uio.no


On Fri, 12 May 2023, Annette Springborn wrote:


Dear Felix, dear nettimers,

No, please do not close this list!

I have been a decades long lurker and I just recently found that it is still precious to me and that I want to keep it as a part of my daily digital life.

I would miss it and would very much appreciate it to stay alive.

Please don?t stop now because it might be a little silent right now or because of technical issues.

I understand that you might be frustrated at this point but I would very much appreciate the list to be continued and hope this is possible!

Thank you all for all this!

Merci <3

With kind regards,
Antenne Springborn.



Am 12.05.2023 um 00:06 schrieb Francesco Mecca <me@francescomecca.eu>:

?
Please, don't close the list. I have been a long time lurker but greatly enjoyed the content. It would be a great loss.

F.M.



On 11 May 2023 21:10:27 CEST, Geoffrey Goodell <goodell@oxonia.net> wrote:
Hi Felix and all,

No.  Let's not close the list.

I believe that Jan's offer of help is valuable.

Why is it not sufficient?  Is it because it does not come with a server?

Well, I have a server that can be put to good use here.  I'll be able to sort
out the details by tomorrow at the latest, but there is no reason why we cannot
install Mailman and some MX records.  Really, this is not a big deal.

Are there other kinds of volunteers needed?  Really, let's be explicit.  We
have the capacity.

I look forward to coordinating with Jan, and perhaps others, to make this
transition a success.  I do not seek to usurp anyone's authority here: I am
happy to do this to be helpful but will gladly support others to make this
happen instead, if others are more appropriate for the job.

But what I can say is that nettime-l will continue, barring some explicit
attempt to block it.

Please let me know:

(a) If you want to help me, or

(b) If you think you can lead/run/support this better than I can (I won't argue
with you if so.  My goal is for nettime to continue.)

Best wishes and thanks again --

Geoff


On Thu, 11 May 2023 at 02:40:54PM +0200, Felix Stalder wrote:
Hi everyone,

if I look over the list traffic of the last 10 days, I don't see much energy
to continue the list. The only concrete offer to contribute some effort came
from Jan Wildeboer. I rally appreciate it, but technical care is only one of
the aspects that is necessary to make it worthwhile to continue the list.

Thus, after many 'nottime' April Fools Day jokes, let's close the list for
real. At this point, I cannot see whom to hand over the list and there is
tldr.nettime.org which, of course, is vastly different from the list.

Almost 8 years ago. Ted and I -- on invitation for a tactical media
anthology that hasn't made it to print (yet) -- wrote an essay of the
history of nettime-l.

https://nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-1511/msg00001.html

It's not without flaws, undoubtedly doesn't do justice to the many people
without whom nettime-l would not have come into existence in the first place
nor lasted for as long as it has.

I'm sure someone will write a better history at some point, and if you want
to put something for them on the record -- that is into the archive at
nettime.org (and a few other places that also archive the list) -- the time
is now.

For me, personally, nettime has been of tremendous value, intellectually but
also a source of deep and enduring friendships. My life has been better
because of nettime and I'm grateful to every contributor and lurker on the
list.

Felix






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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 13 May 2023 18:05:59 +0200
From: Frank Rieger <frank@ccc.de>
To: nettime-l <nettime-l@kein.org>
Cc: Felix Stalder <felix@openflows.com>
Subject: Re: <nettime> closing nettime-l, uh?
Message-ID: FBE337F3-6904-489C-A6AA-E08480C63A54@ccc.de"><FBE337F3-6904-489C-A6AA-E08480C63A54@ccc.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

As a most-of-the-time lurker but continuous reader, I would very much appreciate if the list continues. Low-traffic mailing lists are the quintessential "good" form of noise-reduced closed user groups, which will be the future in our LLM-outpu infested new world, and I would hate to see this one go.

Thanks & Greetings,

Frank


On 11. May 2023, at 14:40, Felix Stalder <felix@openflows.com> wrote:

Hi everyone,

if I look over the list traffic of the last 10 days, I don't see much energy to continue the list. The only concrete offer to contribute some effort came from Jan Wildeboer. I rally appreciate it, but technical care is only one of the aspects that is necessary to make it worthwhile to continue the list.

Thus, after many 'nottime' April Fools Day jokes, let's close the list for real. At this point, I cannot see whom to hand over the list and there is tldr.nettime.org which, of course, is vastly different from the list.

Almost 8 years ago. Ted and I -- on invitation for a tactical media anthology that hasn't made it to print (yet) -- wrote an essay of the history of nettime-l.

https://nettime.org/Lists-Archives/nettime-l-1511/msg00001.html

It's not without flaws, undoubtedly doesn't do justice to the many people without whom nettime-l would not have come into existence in the first place nor lasted for as long as it has.

I'm sure someone will write a better history at some point, and if you want to put something for them on the record -- that is into the archive at nettime.org (and a few other places that also archive the list) -- the time is now.

For me, personally, nettime has been of tremendous value, intellectually but also a source of deep and enduring friendships. My life has been better because of nettime and I'm grateful to every contributor and lurker on the list.

Felix






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| for secure communication, please use signal |
#  distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission
#  <nettime>  is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: https://lists.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 13 May 2023 22:41:57 +0200
From: Menno Grootveld <rabotnik@xs4all.nl>
To: nettime-l <nettime-l@kein.org>
Subject: <nettime> New proposal
Message-ID: 6d30c0f8-c354-581b-910d-6f4634d8c85c@xs4all.nl"><6d30c0f8-c354-581b-910d-6f4634d8c85c@xs4all.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Dear all,

My impression is that quite a lot of people do NOT want the list to be 
closed down. The next question then is: what can we do about it? I would 
like to introduce a feasible proposal. First of all, the list could be 
hosted elsewhere (if necessary). Geert (Lovink) told me that his 
institute, the INC, would be more than happy to host it. So that seems 
relatively easy. Then secondly of course the question is who is actually 
going to take care of the list (the 'janitor' job). I perfectly 
understand that Felix and Ted want to be relieved of that duty after 
eight years or so. But there are other people out here who could take 
over their role, including me. I understand that Florian (Schneider) 
would be up for this task as well, along with a young student of his 
from India. I have found a young student from France who would want to 
step in as well. That already makes four of us. Let's see if others want 
to join or share responsibilities. My take is that nettime is a very 
important resource that has not lost but GAINED relevance in the era of 
social media. And no, it is not just a relic from the early days of the 
net, adhered to and valued only by white males of a certain age. It only 
needs a little bit of fresh blood (in the sense of younger people) and 
perhaps a little bit more prodding (in the sense of asking people from 
time to time to share their thoughts about certain issues). But as an 
instrument of collective deliberation and the exchange of ideas it is as 
yet unsurpassed, as far as I am concerned.

Menno



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 14 May 2023 05:43:30 +0200
From: "Marina Grzinic" <margrz@zrc-sazu.si>
To: "'nettime-l'" <nettime-l@kein.org>
Subject: <nettime> grzinic, this is a great proposal Menno, we should
	accept asap  RE:  New proposal
Message-ID: <000001d98616$3ff58dc0$bfe0a940$@zrc-sazu.si>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="utf-8"

Dear nettimers, we too on the other side of Europe,  fed with nettime, but I would say differently, state:  NETTIME MUSS BLEIBEN. OK?

Menno has a very  good and palpable proposition that we should accept as soon as possible, a host and caretakers, there is nothing to speculate, it's a good solution. AND  thanks to those who have worked  until now,  A GREAT JOB! DONE, stay all very well, Marina Grzinic

-----Original Message-----
From: nettime-l [mailto:nettime-l-bounces@lists.kein.org] On Behalf Of Menno Grootveld
Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2023 10:42 PM
To: nettime-l <nettime-l@kein.org>
Subject: <nettime> New proposal

Dear all,

My impression is that quite a lot of people do NOT want the list to be closed down. The next question then is: what can we do about it? I would like to introduce a feasible proposal. First of all, the list could be hosted elsewhere (if necessary). Geert (Lovink) told me that his institute, the INC, would be more than happy to host it. So that seems relatively easy. Then secondly of course the question is who is actually going to take care of the list (the 'janitor' job). I perfectly understand that Felix and Ted want to be relieved of that duty after eight years or so. But there are other people out here who could take over their role, including me. I understand that Florian (Schneider) would be up for this task as well, along with a young student of his from India. I have found a young student from France who would want to step in as well. That already makes four of us. Let's see if others want to join or share responsibilities. My take is that nettime is a very important resource t
 hat has not lost but GAINED relevance in the era of social media. And no, it is not just a relic from the early days of the net, adhered to and valued only by white males of a certain age. It only needs a little bit of fresh blood (in the sense of younger people) and perhaps a little bit more prodding (in the sense of asking people from time to time to share their thoughts about certain issues). But as an instrument of collective deliberation and the exchange of ideas it is as yet unsurpassed, as far as I am concerned.

Menno

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ZRC SAZU - Umetnost znanosti


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