Re: <nettime> silence on Palestine?

[Allan Siegel via nettime-l <nettime-l@lists.nettime.org>]

Dear Rahul,
Your post and the information is blatantly misleading and a very callous 
reading of history - "only the Jews remain today". Are you serious?

The Jewish National Fund was a Zionist organization buying land in 
Palestine... nothing in this quote suggests Golda Meir had any specific 
relationship to that land, and wasn't she the one that said the land was 
uninhabited?

Regarding Hamas you must be quoting Israeli press releases and 
conveniently omit all the Israeli violations of International law.

How many Palestinians have been murdered by pogroms committed by Israeli 
settlers in the Occupied Territories or in bombing raids in Gaza? You 
seem to think the atrocities are only one sided.

Again, maybe if you took the time to read the press releases you 
reference you will see that most of these demonstrations are in support 
of the Palestinian people not necessarily by any means in support of 
Hamas. But then, within your frame of reference, anyone who supports the 
Palestinian people is by definition antisemitic.

The state of Israel is a Zionist project; a colonial project that 
predates the holocaust. And, innocent people of all ages and religions 
will continue to die needlessly unless the basic inequities perpetrated 
by an unjust apartheid system are rectified.

Sadly, there are far too many other examples where the rights of 
indigenous peoples have been violated, children kidnapped and murdered; 
and sadly, many people still fail to recognize ethnic cleansing as a 
heinous crime against humanity.

maybe you should do a little historical homework Rahul.

peace
allan


On 16/10/2023 18:39, Rahul Goswami via nettime-l wrote:
> My thanks to the admins and moderators of nettime, who have given the 
> space for this discussion which - so far as my limited knowledge of 
> net cultures extends to - is not a core subject for the list.
>
> During the last 3-4 days there have been comments on my posts by Allan 
> Siegel, Ted Byfield and David Opp. What links their comments is the 
> legitimacy of the state of Israel and the presence of the Jewish 
> people. There is undoubtedly a historical record that stretches back 
> to remote antiquity. Insofar as it can be telegraphed, the Hebrews 
> entered the land of Israel about 1300 BCE, living under a tribal 
> confederation until being united under the first king, Saul. The 
> second king, David, established Jerusalem as the capital around 1000 
> BCE. David’s son, Solomon, built the Temple soon thereafter. Of all 
> the people who lived in the area at that time - such as the 
> Phoenicians, Moabites, and Philistines - only the Jews remain today.
>
> To better understand the Jewish attachment to the land, this is a 
> passage from a fairly recent volume.
> "In 1921, the Jewish National Fund had purchased large tracts of land 
> in the Valley of Jezreel known as the Emek. The region was swampy and 
> ridden with malaria and blackwater fever. It had to be drained and 
> cultivated. Merhavia, the kibbutz which Golda chose because some 
> Americans who had come over with the Jewish Legion had settled there, 
> was one of the oldest cooperatives in the Emek. Originally founded in 
> 1909 by members of the legendary Second Aliyah, it had proved to be a 
> difficult spot. After ten years most of the marshland was drained, but 
> the original group had been physically broken in the process." (From 
> 'Golda Meir, Israel's Leader', Marie Syrkin, G P Putnam's Sons, 1969.)
>
> Keith Sanborn has asked: "What is the difference between an attack and 
> a terrorist attack? Wholesale vs retail?"
>
> Reliable sources are to be found in the legal texts on International 
> Humanitarian Law. Hamas, even if taken to be a non-state entity or 
> part of a non-state entity, is considered by all accepted criteria to 
> be fully accountable under International Humanitarian Law for its 
> actions in terror attacks (it is a listed terror organisation by the 
> European Union and by the USA) against Israeli civilians and using its 
> own civilians (Arab Palestinians) as human shields. Its leadership, 
> commanders, and fighters are therefore punishable for crimes against 
> humanity and war crimes. The indiscriminate firing of more than 3,300 
> rockets into Israel’s towns and villages violates the rule of 
> distinction in international humanitarian law, which requires 
> combatants to limit attacks to legitimate military targets, and there 
> is the difference about which you ask.
>
> Furthermore, also consult (a) Yoram Dinstein, 'The Conduct of 
> Hostilities Under the Law of International Armed Conflict' (Cambridge 
> UP, 2004), (b) Jean-Marie Henkaerts and Louise Doswald-Beck, 
> 'Customary International Humanitarian Law' (ICRC, Cambridge UP, 2005). 
> (c) First Additional Protocol to the Geneva Conventions (1977), W J 
> Fenrick, 'The Rule of Proportionality and Protocol I in Conventional 
> Warfare' (98 Mil. L. Rev., 1982).
>
> Sanborn: "No one has ever tried to sanitize this."
>
> What happened on 7 October 2023 was the biggest massacre in one day of 
> Jewish civilians since the Holocaust, and it is the second highest 
> death toll because of terrorist action after the events of 11 
> September 2001 in USA. The death toll is now above 1,300, the count of 
> the injured is much higher than that number, and there are nearly 200 
> hostages still held by Hamas. No amount of academic and activist 
> justification can obscure or distort these facts.
>
> In a previous post I had written, "In a number of cities in Europe, 
> North America and Australia, later on 7 October and during the days 
> following, 'celebrations' for the attack were on public display by 
> supporters in those cities of Hamas, the Palestinian Authority and the 
> Palestinian "resistance"." Sanborn asked "I wd like to see some 
> references substantiating this."
> Here they are:
> https://news.sky.com/story/london-protest-thousands-attend-pro-palestinian-march-amid-escalating-israel-hamas-conflict-12984380 
>
> https://www.dw.com/en/berlin-police-break-up-banned-pro-palestinian-rally/a-67104373 
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/12/scholz-pledges-zero-tolerance-as-antisemitic-incidents-rise-in-europe 
>
> https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/german-police-ban-palestinian-solidarity-rallies-in-berlin/3015651 
>
> https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/baden-wuerttemberg/israel-palaestina-konflikt-bw-100.html 
> (protets forbidden in German cities)
> https://www.politico.eu/article/france-gerald-darmanin-aims-to-ban-all-pro-palestine-protests/ 
>
> https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/les-enseignants-en-premiere-ligne-face-a-la-terreur-islamiste-20231015 
> (Teachers on the front line of Islamic terror)
> https://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/societe/barbarie-islamiste-mecanique-mortifere-20231015 
>
> https://www.dutchnews.nl/2023/10/10000-demonstrate-in-amsterdam-in-support-of-palestine/ 
>
> https://www.profil.at/oesterreich/judenhass-im-herzen-wiens-wer-hinter-den-demos-steckt/402631148 
> (Jew hatred in Vienna)
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2023/10/12/hamas-attack-harvard-students-blame-israel/71152750007/ 
>
>
> Rahul Goswami
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