| Dragu David on Tue, 20 Dec 2005 12:52:00 +0100 (CET) |
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| Re: [Nettime-ro] Atacuri impotriva bisericii |
din cite imi amintesc, desi nici nu eram nascut inca, la 1981 SOLIDARITATEA s-a manifestat in Polonia, unde erau si muncitori si intelectuali si invatatori si preoti, si acestia erau, intradevar, "in aceiasi situatie": comunismul! Uniti, solidari si sustinuti de Papa Ioan Paul al II-lea, deci de un august cap al crestinismului, au reusit sa impuna un dialog cu puterea comunista. Asta-i o realitate importiva careia poate cineva cârti? I se poate sustrage? Asta, inca o data va dau dreptate," leaga impreuna mai multi individuali."!!! +d.d. integer@www.god-emil.dk wrote: >cred ca ati gresit cuvintul. solidaritatea exista >intre persoane in aceeasi situatie; impresia este ca d-l bulat se refera cam la acelasi lucru dar d-l bulat nu este femeie ... pe malurile acestea ingenuncheaza lumea mai mult in fata abstractiilor - patria. profesia. biserica. persoanele reale de multe ori devin cam deficiente ... chiar si proust tot cam prost a fost: "besides, it was she whom i lvd and kould not, therefore look upon without that disturbance, without that desire 4 something more which destroys in us, in the presence of one whom we love, the sensation of loving" >este un sentiment >care leaga impreuna mai multi individuali. sper ca 50% din populatia de sex masculin sa inteleaga la ce te referi. dar si mai putini o s-o aplice. si nu cred ca sint multi individuali pe aici care l-au cunoscut pe yahoo >nu se poate >vorbi de solidaritate cu institutii birocratice care >iti exploateaza munca (universitatea, printre altele) >sau cu idei abstracte (statul, religia sau piata >libera - abstractii care din pacate au efecte prea >reale). cuvintul mai potrivit pentru astfel de >"solidaritate" ar fi sclavie. sau indoctrinare, daca >vrem unul mai blind. felicitari bisericii ortodoxe >pentru succesul cu care continua sa vinda sclavia >drept "constiinta morala," mai ales pe piata >intelectuala din romania. de acord complet. dar "raportul dintre om si biserica este unul strict INDIVIDUAL" este totusi mai valabil decit ce au realizat alte proiecte de scala mare. religia cit de cit mai da ceva de valoare `sclavilor` pe cind celelalte sisteme de anvergura - pulafashion. intrebarea este - cum implementam ceva intrinsic small scale - fara autori si consumatori - care se baseaza pe emotion - pe scala mare mai bine decit religia, adica fara a introduce `sclavia`. deoarece spatiul dintre persoane \ individuali este sub continuu atac de catre toate sistemele de mass production - capitalism. organized religion. etc - - - >Plus, manifestarile publice ale sferei politice care identifica ortodoxia ca religie o >ficiala, ceea ce nu este normal intr-o democratie. daca asumam ca democratia pe scala mare ste normala seneca - it is logical that the illogical should contradict the logical. - - - > A spune ca sunt multe biserici nu inseamna ca vrei sa distrugi biserica. Pent >ru un ateu ele par prea multe, pentru un calugar prea putine. > Cat despre intentia de distrugere cu adevarat a bisericilor, eu nu ma bag. Vr >em ca religia sa fie o problema exclusiv personala tot ce este personal este automat social >si oamenii sa nu mai mearga l >a biserica? ok. asta e si alegerea mea. Si cred ca asta e viitorul religiei si >a spiritului. Dar asta se face cu pasi mici, natural. inainte de biserica a existat credinta inainte de stadioane a existat jocul inainte de galerie a existat `arta` inainte de a existat atractia dar sint de acord cu pervasive spirituality art etc which is inherent in small communities\villages whether it is feasible in an ever more specialized mass production society remains to be seen the objective is not distrugerea bisericilor/galeriilor/monumentelor/etc per se but their extension into every aspect of life - much as a relationship progresses from attraction to lasting attachment. the objective is to shift from the 15min\reclama\monument time scale to a continuum\pervasive\small scale state > Dar acei oameni eliberati >de gregarism se poate sa nu mai cumpere nici arta, >sa nu mai mearga nici pe stadioane, si nici la supermarket. si nici la mare. dimpotriva. liberation [reason lrg scale democracy is not normal] does not imply the absence of desire but a radical openess to it. democracy's artificial methodology ov regulating and constricting small scale desires and interaction through laws and a monopoly on force, turns individuals into abstract objects, an insidious infection which converts small scale discord into large scale caustic modular debris explosions - socially dysfunctional routines penetrating \ propagating at all lvlz. >Asta ar fi catastrof >al in acest moment. Chiar (sau cel mai mult) pentru un artist. Arta a purtat mer >eu in sine germenii (auto)distrugerii si anticiparii viitorului, insa trebuie fa >cuta o distinctie intre planul ei si cel al realitatii. pfaaa - daca ti-e frica faci o distinctie. >Nu-l iubesc pe Che Guevara. watje Closely linked to the word "choosing" in the Five Books of Moses is the word "rakhamim". God is described in a moment of great intimacy with Moses as "El rakhum", the compassionate God. Etymology is key here. The compound word compassion is a strikingly logical word for a signified which is so emotional---I believe "compassion" means "to feel with"--this formulation is simple, logical, elementary, . By contrast, "rakhamim" is a poetical rather than a logical construct. "Rekhem" means womb. "Rakhamim" means to care about another's feelings as if one were the other's mother--and at a point in time when the other/child is a part of one's very body, inside your body. The parallel in psychoanalysis: The analysand calls because she is in need of "rakhamim." The analyst calls, offering "rakhamim" in an asymmetrical fashion. But the patient who is incapable of also offering at least some "rakhamim" to the analyst is beyond the reach of the relationship. And to paraphrase Che Guevara, the analyst proposes to set in motion a bloody revolution in the patient's emotional life--but guided by feelings of love. \ ORDNUNG \+\ DISZIPLIN | | z!mpl plznt W0Rk | |9| [p-un_kT-pr_o-T?k_oL] Ø f Ø Ø Ø 3 | herausgegeben vøm !nternat!onalen !nst!tut f:ur ordnung |+| d!sz!pl!n : / / www.m9ndfukc.org _______________________________________________ Nettime-ro mailing list Nettime-ro@nettime.org http://www.nettime.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/nettime-ro --> arhiva: http://amsterdam.nettime.org/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! 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