Re: [Nettime-ro] no comment

[| f | | | | 3 <n2o@ggttctttat.com>]

in light of recent developments ...


nadia R. a scris:

 > Grupurile de discutii pe net (v-o spun in calitate de reprezentant
a mai multor ONGuri dintre care unele europene si cu experienta a mai
multor forumuri si grupuri de discutii foarte active,fara pretentia
de a va da sfaturi,doar va prezint o realitate) au toate la inceput o
descriere, o definitie a scopului si un manunchi de reguli de
comunicare la care toti cei care subscriu (de bunavoie) trebuie sa
adere,altfel nu sunt
  > inscrisi.Punct.
  > Trebuie sa intelegem cu totii ca un astflel de grup este unul   
PRIVAT si NU
  > PUBLIC


Incorect.



 >si deci administratorul are dreptul sa aprobe inscrierea
 >cui doreste


Incorect.  Administrators and moderators are obligated to not
abuse their authority for personal ends.



 >si, la fel ,sa dea afara pe cine incalca regulile la care
 >a subscris

Depinde de reguli - unele reguli sint ilegale.



 >,fara niciun preaviz.Cum ar zice unii :"cenzura
 >ceausista", dar nimeni nu-i obliga sa se inscrie daca nu le place si
 >oricand pot solicita
  > dezabonarea de pe grup ,deci au totala libertate de alegere.

Whether you mean it or not Enforced Conformity or Exile are not  
sustainable solutions.
I know that in Romania this may seem like a trivial matter and  
corruption is the norm,
because the communist illusion that suppression produces results  
persists,
but history teaches otherwise - just ask the v.surprised ceausescu

The only thing that suppression, particularly clandestine suppression as
practiced on Nettime-ro for over 1 year accomplishes is increased  
opposition
and revolt.


It seems you aren't aware of what has been taking place on nettime-ro  
and what the issues are.

Nettime-ro has been fully censored (not moderated) for over 1 year,
censorship which Perjovschi recommended, and Catona implemented.

The current situation, the fact that it is no longer censored, is, in  
my opinion
a technical glitch. It seems improbable that Dana Catona changed her  
mind
regarding the benefits of cladestine censorship, and clearly  
Perjovschi hasn't.





So ...

Daca reprezinti Ong-uri - you may want to do some research into
disenfranchising, persecution, and abuse of authority,
particularly as applicable to the non profit field.

Rules, mutually accepted modes of communication are not the issue here.
If Catona hadn't practiced censorship with perjovschi's encouragement  
and recommendation,
for over a year, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Period.


The issue is abuse of authority - ie. employing one's position of  
authority to push through
a personal agenda, by engaging in persistent and systemic censorship  
and repression of the opposition.
This is corruption 1.0.1

I repeat: if Catona hadn't practiced censorship for over a year,
we wouldn't be having this discussion.


Further, if Nettime-ro returns to full scale clandestine censorship  
we will file
formal complaints with all Art and Non-profit funding and regulatory  
bodies of .ro and .eu.
We have successfully removed other corrupt moderators and
will not hesitate doing it again, irrespective whether perjovschi's
carioci will be affected. Disenfranchising others is not a playing  
matter,
I don't care if one is an artist and/or de la usa cortului.

We hope this is unnecessary, and I have outlined my recommendations,
namely that Catona be replaced with a multiplural volunteer group of  
3-4 men and women,
and Perjovschi clarify his position on cenzura clandestina, because
a democratic state should not unknowingly fund those
advocating censorship.





1.

I agree that mutually accepted rules  are desirable, must be  
formulated and must be observed.
I disagree, however that they can be enforced in an ad hoc fashion,  
inconsistently, and used for personal ends,
for example suppressing the opposition, groups of persons that those  
in power disagree with,
which is what has been taking place on nettime-ro.

The principle attribute of a moderator, administrator and leader must  
be objectivity. Both Catona and perjovschi,
through their statements and actions have demonstrated utter and  
complete contempt and
disregard for this requirement, and have made it perfectly clear that  
they are not prepared to extend equal
priviledges to the opposition -- i.e., cronyism and corruption 101.


2.

It is ironic that you find it surprising that many people are  
apathetic to this discussion.
Please recall that Nettime-ro has been placed under complete  
clandestine censorship for over 1 year,
which on a micro-scale mimics ceausescu's regime.

When people are conditioned through a non participatory program of  
non-stop reclame,
it is absolutely normal to lose interest, and adopt a non- 
participatory, laisser fairer attitude.

In fact what you will find, as on Nettime-ro, is that initially  
people are more likely
to complain about the disturbance caused by any objection or protest  
to the status quo.
Imminent Change is more frightening than repression. The masses will  
shift their
allegiance, but only after their laisser fairer attitude has been  
truly shaken.
The natural condition of the masses is not awareness, but sleep and  
trivial self interest.

This is precisely what makes the capitalist corruption possible - people
are largely concerned cu linistea lor, obtaining good deals when  
shopping, viewing their fav. tv program,
dreaming about winning the lottery.  While one cannot really fault  
people for this, they should not be
surprised by the corruption flourishing around them. One cannot exist  
without the other.

So while I agree with you that the apathy demonstrated by the list as  
a whole is deplorable,
Catona's insidious program of non-Stop Reklame has been instrumental  
in creating and maintaining
this condition.




 >"sat fara caini"

Mie mi se pare ca o satra de ciini, corupta, fara stapini.


See Animal Farm by Orwell or Underground by Kusturica


You are underestimating what has been taking place on Nettime-ro
and how symptomatic it is of the wider corruption in Romania.






 > Nu stim sa ascultam si sa folosim experienta celor care s-au"  
lovit deja cu capul de pragul de sus",
 >ori de cate ori cineva emite o parere (buna -rea,macar e din capul  
propriu) trebuie redus la tacere,desfiintat ca persoana.


Ai protestat cind Catona practica cenzura timp de peste un an +?

Nu.

Ai fost perfectly silent.


Atit timp cit nu o simtim nu este o problema.
But that is precisely how censorship works.


Crezi ca cenzura ascunsa sub pragul democratic si civilizat este mai  
putin violenta decit sub pragul comunist+?
Crezi ca daca n-o vezi este mai putin violenta +? Dimpotriva. Este  
mai violenta.

Crezi ca un pui la punga, impachetat frumos si sanitar este mai  
civilizat decit celui
care is s-a taiat gitul intr-o curte si se zbate peste tot, in fata  
ochilor tai, patind tot in cale  +?

Crezi ca in comunism nu au existat oameni cenzurati, disparuti, si  
altii au aplaudat ca niste lasi civilizati,
sau au facut tot felul de scuze, ca acest compromis este necesar pt.  
progres, pt. civilizatie, pt. liniste, pt. pace, pt. el si pt. ea,
pt. mine si pt. tine, in _numele_ nostru +? Think again.

Eu o fac deschis. O vezi. Poti sa raspunzi. Perjovschi si Catona pot  
sa raspunda.
Daca ti se pare cam violenta - asta se intimpla cind coruptia este
ascunsa sub prag ani intregi. Dar aceasta violenta nu este nimic  
comparativ
cu cea ascunsa, sanitara, a cenzurii.



To the 'civilized and superior artists' whose dear  silence I have  
shattered -- don't be so overly concerned.

It is improbable that Catona would suddenly see un adevar luminos and  
change
her mind regarding the wonderful 'benefits of censorship'.

It most likely is just a temporary error in the list maintenance  
settings, something purely technological,
and things will return to the status quo shortly, so that you may  
once again enjoy the high discourse,
in profound and civilized silence,  and not be bothered by things you  
cannot see nor feel.



 > am pretentii).


You're certainly one of the few around here with good intentions,
who is listening, and who is not only preocupied with EUEUEUEUEUE
but that also seems to predispose you to think everyone's intentions  
are good and sincere.
You'll be surprized to find that some aren't.





-
Krvava Gruda Plodna Zemlja







0f0003.MASCHIN3NKUNST
@www.0f0003.com
17.hzV.tRL.478
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